A friend posted this, and I answered that nobody is trying to hold anyone accountable for the things racists and slave owners did hundreds of years ago, but people who are still supporting those systems today are being held accountable for what they're doing in the present to perpetuate the problems.
I was asked what these systems are, and the rest of this is the conversation that ensued, lightly edited for the sake of readability. There’s a lot to read, but bear with me; it’s important for understanding the problem. I can back up everything I say with verifiable facts, and if you want a source for something that I don’t provide a link to, please let me know and I will post it for you. I’m going to post a limited number of links for now, also for the sake of readability.
As an extreme example of the concept in my OP, if your parents owned slaves, it's not your fault, but if you continue to own slaves, or support slavery, you are now part of the problem, so it is up to you to end the slavery, even though it wasn't your fault. To clarify, doing nothing is supporting the status quo, and if the status quo is harmful, you're perpetuating it through inaction or even being unknowingly actively supporting it.
People supporting systemic racism are a very clear example of the problem. There are many forms of oppression built into our society as a relic of slavery, Jim Crow, and modern racist policies. We've never dealt with the legacy of our country's history of slavery and genocide at all.
They misunderstood my response a little and asked, “My question to you is in this day and age how is somebody supporting slavery when it does not exist anymore or please shed light on this version of slavery you are referring to?” They got stuck on using slavery as the example.
Please read what I'm linking to, and know that I'm not trying to convince you that I'm right, I'm trying to introduce these concepts to you and give you the basic information and a starting point to do your own research. These are big problems, and I can point them out and try to explain them, but these really are big, complex topics. I'm confident that once you start really digging into this stuff, you'll agree with me, but I'm not asking you to take my word for it, all of the proof is out there.
So to start, slavery didn't end when the United States passed the 13th amendment in 1865. Chattel slavery actually persisted, illegally, until at least 1963. I'll get to the legacy of slavery a little later, but just try to accept for now that many systems that were built around slavery still benefit from the oppression of Black people today, and slavery is not ancient history.
https://www.livescience.com/61886-modern-slavery-united-states-antoinette-harrell.html?fbclid=IwAR3cm4YBDBjwv6fQ0VHDAQoD7Rcsw1cr0up6dM3L7e5FvQFk3Wydp14HaE4
Were you aware that the 13th amendment didn't actually end slavery? It just changed the rules of it.
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
Slavery is still acceptable as long as someone has been convicted of a crime.
Because chattel slavery was no longer allowed, but slavery through imprisonment was, a whole industry developed around prison labor, and you know that where there's a profit motive, people will find a way to exploit the system.
https://time.com/5405158/the-true-history-of-americas-private-prison-industry/?fbclid=IwAR3pHSIIyjTz4XPeHTSbmmiljwp_94H0fPq8I5wc5gZdpOGOka3x--MOKZQ
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/10/origin-prison-slavery-shane-bauer-american-prison-excerpt.html?fbclid=IwAR3uDaAjM8hXJ2s75wE2mYyXMpxV8yIsT7PJUB8CyzJu5CL4VEPEIlucT3k
https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/capitalizing-on-mass-incarceration-u-s-growth-in-private-prisons/?fbclid=IwAR216YGptsRjkCKkkzTddcsoJTwoPf7TreDChODTYobHT3P4x7Awpxx3W1Q
People are not only profiting from imprisoning other people, they're selling the labor of the imprisoned people, for more profit, without fairly compensating the people doing the work (often just pennies an hour, while they charge for phone calls, soap, and other necessities) or having a say in the work they're doing or their own working conditions. That's modern day slavery. This doesn't just affect Black people, but it does disproportionately affect Black people.
"With the government paying private prison operators about $23,000 per year per inmate (keep in mind, the minimum wage is $15,000 per year), it’s a lucrative business. CoreCivic’s reported 2017 revenue was close to $1.8 billion, and a back-of-the-envelope calculation shows that with 80,000 beds supported by the government to the tune of $23,000 per inmate per year, it’s collecting about $1.8 billion annually from the government. Business is booming indeed – thanks to the American taxpayers."
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/the-cold-hard-facts-about-americas-private-prison-system?fbclid=IwAR0gNyZVdoFdtYKpoY6r-id5R1Vzb9FlWXIA9iO0HlsmkoN8i6LgN2P8dfw
https://www.sentencingproject.org/criminal-justice-facts/?fbclid=IwAR3j4zvEOeIckhoiO3SV2tpgyIW282yruMRIatAEJvUrY5lK6BcowejRJX8
Knowing that a lot of how the modern prison system functions has replaced slavery, it's important to look at the systems that keep the US having 25% of the world's incarcerated despite being only 4% of the population.
The US is the most heavily incarcerated country in the world, and a lot of that is due to a profit motive. Since this is related to crime, it's important to look at the primary cause of crime, which is poverty. We have an economic system designed to keep people in poverty, an education system that doesn't provide equal opportunities for everyone, and a justice system that has gradually criminalized more and more of everyday life, while implementing harsh sentencing standards designed to punish and keep people imprisoned as opposed to rehabilitating them.
https://psmag.com/social-justice/taking-freedom-modern-day-slavery?fbclid=IwAR04yXPlfZbaLTA8-9fZQ6vfVafhxBmcXXeG-d_qHnq_cN6I4BpCYa2_YeQ
When we look at all of those other systems, you'll see that it isn't just Black people being oppressed. We all suffer because of systems that were designed by rich people to benefit from the labor of poor people, and that Black people are disproportionately affected by all of them. There are racial disparities in the criminal justice system, poverty, wealth, income, education and educational opportunity, leadership in private industry, and a lot more, and the roots of the inequality all trace back to slavery and the oppressive systems that were built around it.
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/unequal-opportunity-race-and-education/?fbclid=IwAR3YqspcUS268QFQDzGj8sH3ecxfPRV7R4WrRDct-R-BUatrHmSPq3IE6A8
https://apps.urban.org/features/wealth-inequality-charts/?fbclid=IwAR0s9XLarqLpB9ZyoXqu0BoHfpyKbuUM9YmwZJrYV9DtuBqytY8UHFZoI-w
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/02/27/examining-the-black-white-wealth-gap/?fbclid=IwAR0gNyZVdoFdtYKpoY6r-id5R1Vzb9FlWXIA9iO0HlsmkoN8i6LgN2P8dfw
https://inequality.org/facts/racial-inequality/?fbclid=IwAR3cm4YBDBjwv6fQ0VHDAQoD7Rcsw1cr0up6dM3L7e5FvQFk3Wydp14HaE4
https://hbr.org/cover-story/2019/11/toward-a-racially-just-workplace
So, getting back to my original point, we live in a society that was built around slavery. We ended chattel slavery, but never addressed the rest of the things in our society that we didn't change. People from 200 years ago didn't build a perfect system. They gave us a good foundational document, but they were also rich white people who built a society that would benefit them, specifically, at the expense of other people. We've never, as a country, really examined the effects of that or done anything to change it. Those systems that were designed to help the white rich people still help the white rich people at the expense of everyone else, including poor white people, but disproportionately affects Black people.
It's not our fault that we were born into this situation, but what we do with it is definitely our responsibility. If we perpetuate these systems of oppression, then we're complicit. Loving this country means we should all want to make it better for everyone who lives here, and that starts by recognizing that we're not all treated equally, and that there are systemic problems because many of these systems were designed 200 years ago by imperfect people and there's a lot of room for improvement.
They thanked me for the links and asked, “My question to you is how is the average American citizen contributing to slavery (or this inequality you seem to have a hard time articulating) can you give me Some day to day examples? In my profession we have quotas for females and people of color, So if you’re a white male you’re at a disadvantage, I would like to know if and how going about my daily life is affecting someone in a negative way?”
Stopping supporting politicians who support the for-profit prison industry, or corporations using prison labor, is a good way to start. Pressuring politicians to end that system is something we can all do, same goes for trying to not give business to companies like Sprint (prison labor is used in call centers), Victoria's Secret (prison labor for sewing), or WalMart (prison labor to strip bar codes off of products so they can be resold). So you can go about your daily life and just choose to spend your money with companies that don't use prison labor, and not vote for politicians who support the for-profit prison system. This particular issue is a problem on the left and right because lobbyists donate a lot of money on both sides to get the politicians to support it, and it results in the very real oppression and exploitation of Americans. It doesn't require major changes in your life, or to take drastic action; even small changes make a difference as long as everyone makes small changes.
Fighting inequality (and it's not that I can't articulate it, it's just a big topic with a lot to talk about, and I was trying to give a big picture overview instead of just focusing on one small thing) is hard because it's built into society. The main thing that we can do is understand it, and push our politicians to change it. For things like the disparity in pay for women or Black people, it's important for companies to review the pay of their employees to see if they're paying people unfairly, and changing that if they do. Pressuring politicians to support legislation that mandates equal pay is important. Honestly, the best thing you can do to fight against inequality is make the effort to understand it and where it comes from. Making sure that everyone in this country has equal opportunities for success, and that everyone is treated fairly shouldn't be a political issue, and it sucks that people weaponize it for their political benefit.
They asked, “so just to clarify what you’re saying , systemic racism lies in the penal system that uses inmates as cheap labor and politicians that support their system, Do they only use African-American inmates or inmates of all races?”
Systemic racism exists elsewhere, too. They use inmates of all races, but Black people are disproportionately affected by it for a number of reasons; some of that is because law enforcement targets Black people more than white people, and Black people receive disproportionately longer sentences for the same crimes than white people. Black people make up 13% of the population, but nearly 40% of inmates. There's systemic racism in the systems that result in these disproportionate numbers. It would still be systemic oppression and exploitation of Americans even if the numbers were proportionate, it's just compounded by systemic racism.
In straight numbers, more white people are the victims of it, but as a percentage of population, Black people are more likely to be affected than white people, but it's still an atrocity that it's happening to anyone, and we have something like 2.2 million people incarcerated right now.
The conversation got derailed for a bit, but we resumed on a slight tangent.
Let me ask everyone in this conversation something that's not political at all. How well do you think you know American history; about the reasons the country was founded, and about the founding fathers?
They responded, “I grew up abroad and did not study American history so I welcome your education on how that affects the current situation, what do you think about the welfare system do you think that’s keeping African-Americans down or helping them?”
It's helping them, and the rest of the poor people in this country. Sure, you get a few people who abuse it, but mostly, it's very necessary. There's greater inequality right now than at the beginnings of the great depression or French Revolution. There are 40 million Americans living in poverty, and that's only the "official" determination of poverty. Functionally, many millions more are. The economy is designed to siphon wealth away from the lower classes and accumulate at the top. There's ample study data showing that strong social programs improve health, happiness, and the economy. They improve educational opportunity, and create jobs, if done right. We're already paying taxes that are used to subsidize corporations, and we pay more toward corporate subsidies and tax cuts for the wealth than we do for social programs. We have our national priorities wrong; the economy should work for the benefit of everyone, not just shareholders.
We have a self perpetuating system of legalized corruption in our lobbying industry, and it's a bipartisan problem. Whoever can bribe the politicians the most, wins, so they buy both sides. We let them donate nearly unlimited amounts to campaigns. In case it wasn't clear, "them" or “they” in this discussion are the corporate lobbyists, billionaires, and other people in power (and I’m not talking about elected officials being in power). At this point, they're so entrenched they're actually writing legislation. The history of the labor movement in America is fascinating and almost completely omitted from our primary educations, so people take for granted how hard people fought for even the scraps that we're given now. Many people have literally fought and died against corporate profiteers to get us the protections we have today, and the same corporate interests are fighting to weaken those protections. Poverty isn't an accident nor is it a moral failing of people, it's engineered.
So there's a huge class war happening, but the people controlling the narrative (the politicians being paid by corporate interests to protect their interests) spread false narratives to keep us divided, which makes us easier to control. Unless you're born into wealth, it's very difficult to attain wealth. It isn't impossible, which is why we still have this myth about this being the land of opportunity. It's literally like winning the lottery. You see lottery winners every day, but you know how unlikely it is to do that. With people escaping poverty, they see the ones who have, but think they have a good chance, not realizing what the chances actually are. The systemic racism means that Black people are hit even harder by it than white people. Black people are calling attention to the systemic racism that comes in many forms, including police brutality, but the entrenched power structures spread division by saying that the racial disparities aren't real. Black people are just asking to be treated as equals, which is something we should all want, but it's politicized and weaponized, and used to divide us. They also make us think the poor people are the problem by demonizing people on welfare, which distracts from the rampant looting (by the rich) that's happening, stealing our wealth, and our futures.
It's all about power and control. People who can't afford to take a few days off of work are much less likely to risk their livelihoods to protest or fight back against you. Right now, more than 50% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, nearly 40% would be unable to come up with $400 in case of an emergency. People in that situation are just scraping to get by. I bet you know plenty of people like that. I do, and I've been there. I still mostly, but not always, live paycheck to paycheck despite having a pretty good income, just because the cost of living is so high. People in a situation like that have no power, and when you turn them against each other, they're easy to control.
Patriotism is used as a shield to deflect from addressing the issues. Legitimate criticism is met with accusations of hating the country. The reason people in power don't want everyone looking at the history of this country is because we then have to reckon with it. This country was literally built on genocide and slavery, but in our primary education we're taught an inaccurate, whitewashed version of history. I care about the country, and want to help the country be better, we should always be striving to be better. That's something even [my friend] will agree with, even with as much shit as he likes to give me. Part of being better is understanding the injustices we have committed so that we can try to make them right, and making this a better place than we were given. No matter how good you think you are, you always try to do better for the people you care about, and you should care about everyone in your country. "I only care about mine" is a recipe for failure in a society. Average people fighting against positive change are being misled by the power structures, and they don't realize they're fighting against their own self interests. I'm not sure if you've heard the phrase "a rising tide lifts all boats," but when we all do better, it's just that.
Scarcity of resources, labor, or productivity are not the problem. The wealthy are doing better than ever. Our productivity is off the charts, but wages have not increased to keep up with production. We have ample available labor. The accumulation of wealth at the very top is the problem, and it's been happening since the inception of the country. Systemic racism also was instrumental in the inception of the country. I know that was a lot, but to understand the conversation around poverty you have to understand where it comes from and how it's used as a weapon against us.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/theminewars-labor-wars-us/?fbclid=IwAR28jtrZcATYXUlISP2nKYjnPLv2nSdShEeGkrDPXOkD3iSixDgtKGQMLls
https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2013/11/11/243973620/when-lobbyists-literally-write-the-bill?fbclid=IwAR3VmymeoI12PTX431YomIiOBMFbSc7RzpP9t-4IKXW1RPYphBVf1PVH2R0
https://www.usatoday.com/pages/interactives/asbestos-sharia-law-model-bills-lobbyists-special-interests-influence-state-laws/?fbclid=IwAR1I1Zzf5MgE7dU21HyG9QD9bcuMb11A1N_jvgl4CkeBZIw4fXh-sAlnNG0
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/07/6-facts-about-economic-inequality-in-the-u-s/?fbclid=IwAR3Pt8WTfAn-l6nLszN2oEMBG6W7CJKC01W8uQJAFfMmcQWp0MUAwGslVls
For a very clear-eyed view of the founding of this country, and the founding fathers, this is some excellent history. Everything is 100% correct and verifiable. It's about 45 minutes, and starts out a little dry but gets very interesting. It starts as a discussion of confederate monuments and the objections to removing them, but it's really just an excellent history lesson, and well worth watching. It'll give you a better understanding of the starting point for everything that we have today.
https://youtu.be/OwUIDNYwZRY
https://www.mobilitypartnership.org/publications/escaping-poverty?fbclid=IwAR1JrL5H5ww5CBxuU3yg2HEg2gzxrtx7ff04JrG-51Zx9qVc8fDFnXAJ3j8
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2018/09/12/behind-the-numbers-millions-seeking-a-path-out-of-poverty/?fbclid=IwAR3cm4YBDBjwv6fQ0VHDAQoD7Rcsw1cr0up6dM3L7e5FvQFk3Wydp14HaE4
Trump, a billionaire, gave huge tax breaks to other billionaires, making promises about what they would do. Trump didn't create the problem, but he accelerated it.
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/news/2019/09/26/475083/trumps-corporate-tax-cut-not-trickling/?fbclid=IwAR1-loit7p3wPaq8thrkRip61C0H42pwPFJVsEtjhepxZUuH1jwRvISxadE
https://www.forbes.com/sites/camilomaldonado/2019/10/10/trump-tax-cuts-helped-billionaires-pay-less-taxes-than-the-working-class-in-2018/?fbclid=IwAR3pHSIIyjTz4XPeHTSbmmiljwp_94H0fPq8I5wc5gZdpOGOka3x--MOKZQ#3c56f0663128
https://publicintegrity.org/topics/inequality-poverty-opportunity/taxes/trumps-tax-cuts/?fbclid=IwAR1BZAYJrN6NUKXtiU_cTeblUdWQGXwcZKIqjdLBJ4ct4a5eA5OrBOydFuU
Self perpetuating systems of corruption, with poverty and division used to suppress dissent. Under all of this is systemic racism, which is just one of the overlapping systems of oppression that we face. The Black Lives Matter movement raises awareness of the systemic racism, but also the economic oppression and labor exploitation. It threatens the people profiting from these things so they try to make the civil rights protesters the enemy. Same thing happened during the civil rights movement of the 1960's. They criticize looters and rioters in an effort to delegitimize the protests, and justify state violence against them. When we address the economic oppression, and spending our own tax dollars to benefit working people instead of benefiting the rich, they call it socialism (attacks they used against social security and medicaid, which are some of the most successful, popular programs in government history). What we have now is "socialism" but for the benefit of the rich, but they demonize the poor to make the people with no power seem like the enemy.
And just so I'm clear, this isn't just a Trump problem, the system was built long before he got here, he's just very good at using the framework that he was given. He has a lot of working people fooled into thinking he's working on their behalf, but he isn't, just like the vast majority of politicians aren't. People think Nancy Pelosi is working in their best interests, but she's not. She takes a ton of money to fight against legislation that helps people, too.
I’m not trying to draw an equivalency between Trump, a white supremacist who is openly corrupt and has made a mockery of the rule of law, and Pelosi, who is just your run of the mill legally corrupt politician, other than neither are truly working in your best interest, no matter what they’re telling you.
There are many systems of oppression, and they overlap. This conversation only focuses on a few of the many structural issues. People devote their lives to studying these systems; I just hope I’ve been able to give you some additional perspective and resources to do your own research, and really start to understand the big picture.
